Train destination categories

[kake]

I've been pondering for a while how to make the railway station pages on RGL more useful for planning adventures. The thing is that with Tube stations I can decide I would e.g. like to go and explore somewhere on the Metropolitan Line, and then view a map of all the stations on that line and pick one that looks appealing, and/or look at a list of all Good Beer Guide pubs within 500 metres of a Metropolitan Line station and pick one, etc.

I can't do this so easily with railway stations. We do have some railway line categories, e.g. the Dartford Loop Line and the Lea Valley Line, but I find these a bit confusing. What I want to know is which terminus/major rail station the trains run to.

So I was wondering — would it be useful for anyone else if I created categories on RGL like "Trains To Victoria", "Trains To Paddington", "Trains To East Croydon" etc? Would it be confusing? Should Tube trains be included in these categories?

And which stations should have these categories? I was thinking Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Paddington, Victoria, and Waterloo would be the most useful ones for exploration purposes. Any others?

Comments

[katstevens]

I think it's a great idea! Fenchurch Street and Marylebone too, perhaps?

[kake]

Unsure about Fenchurch Street — it only serves five stations in London and three of them are covered by the Tube/DLR. Marylebone may be worth it though — eleven stations in RGL's area, four of which aren't covered by Tube.

Should stations only covered by Tube go in these categories, do you think? We'd end up with e.g. the whole of the Jubilee Line in the London Bridge category...

[katstevens]

No, I think Tube-only stations are fine as they are - the Jubilee line stations don't terminate (or indeed stop) at the London Bridge rail station! So e.g. West Ruislip would be fine for Marylebone, but Maida Vale wouldn't. A way to differentiate it could be whether a direct train from the station in question would arrive in the main terminus (I think the only tube line that does this at a major terminal is the H&C at Paddington).

How about the Moorgate terminus for the Drayton Park line? I know very little about that line and it would be handy for adventure plotting.

[kake]

Well, we do already have e.g. London Bridge station in both Tube and train categories, so there's already some blurring of distinctions between different bits of the same station. Also, it could be handy in distinguishing between different branches of the same Tube line, e.g. not all Northern Line stations have services that call at London Bridge.

I think for now though, you're right, let's leave Tube-only stations out of the categories — we can always add them later if it seems that would be useful.

Yes to Moorgate!

[kake]

New thought, prompted by starting the data entry for Trains To East Croydon — what about stations that only have one or two services a day? e.g. Tulse Hill has one train per day to East Croydon (in the early morning) and one train back (in the evening). I don't reckon this deserves to be in the category as it's not much use in adventure-planning. What do you think?

[katstevens]

Good question - if I saw a station in that category I'd expect to be able to walk up and get a train within half an hour. I suppose a note could be added to the category page saying 'regular train service to X from this station' or 'at least N trains per hour to X from this station'?

[kake]

I like these criteria — thinking of saying that a station belongs in "Trains To X" if it:

- has direct trains to X
- these trains are not restricted to e.g. peak times
- one could expect to turn up at the station at most points during the day/evening/week/weekend and wait no more than about half an hour for a train to X

[ilmari.org]

How about Euston, King's Cross and St Pancras?

[kake]

Euston's already covered by the Euston-Watford Line category (or are there other routes?)

Good thought re King's Cross and St Pancras. I wonder if that should be one category or two.

[techiebabe]

Was about to say Kings X too (I tend to travel to Stratford, Kings X, Liv St, Waterloo and London Bridge most, in terms of mainline).

Not sure if St P needs to be separate, Id probably go for 'Kings Cross / St Pancras' as one location, but a search on either would bring it up - could that be done?

Also is there a category for 'London Overground'? as that along with tube stations might end up covering most mainline stations anyway? Id like to know (hypothetically) places I could visit near London Overground stations, if my route went that way. Maybe naming the lines in the same way as tube lines. I actually might seek places where I could break the journey but are specifically NOT at a terminus, to avoid crowds and crush. But I wouldnt want to search on each station individually. So if I could search on 'places near a Goblin Overground station', say, I might read the results & think 'oh, somewhere near Queens Road! that could work...'

But I know this is a lot of work, so I will just offer my thoughts and leave it with you.

[kake]

Yep, if we call the category "Trains to King's Cross/St Pancras" then a search on either will bring it up.

There is indeed already a category for London Overground, and categories for its individual lines too.

[vampwillow]

but trains from KX and StP go in very different directions. Euston Road is the nearest the two lines every get to each other.

I also wonder whether - as you are in essence trying to entice people to *go* to these places - that it should be "train _from_ [railway terminus]" (where 'train' means national-rail-not-LOROL

[kake]

but trains from KX and StP go in very different directions.

I'm not sure I see why this is a problem... is it?

Re "Trains To X" vs. "Trains From X", I think the former is more a natural construction, particularly since many of the individual pages already have info in the free-text part saying e.g. "Trains go to Victoria and London Bridge."